Podcast: RB Ramesh on why Gukesh won FIDE Candidates, his chances against Ding Liren and why insulation against public and media is paramount
In this episode of the Sportstar Podcast, host Mayank and Rakesh Rao are joined by Grandmaster RB Ramesh as they review D Gukesh’s historic triumph at FIDE Candidates 2024.
Published : May 04, 2024 18:30 IST - 39 MINS READ
Full transcript:
Mayank:
Hello and welcome to the Sportstar Podcast, where we have a special guest today - Mr. RB Ramesh. Today, we are going to discuss something historic that happened recently - D Gukesh, the 17-year-old, became the youngest ever Candidates winner.
Without further ado, I will give the mic to Rakesh Sir.
Rakesh:
Thank you so much Mayank, for having me on the show today.
Well, today is a big day; because, the whole country is talking about chess for a change in the times of IPL, thanks to how the Indians did in the recently concluded Candidates Chess tournament. Of course, the icing on the cake was the triumph of Gukesh, who beat the field of eight individuals.
Now, just to put things into perspective, a sixth seeded guy with three or four guys who were seeded higher than him, all in the top ten of the world, and he comes out stronger and half a point ahead of this lot. So, that itself speaks a lot.
And to talk about it, we have one grand master, the only one of its kind in the country; who not only has done well for himself in his career as a player, but I think his contribution is absolutely out of this world when it comes to producing champions and guiding a whole lot of young Indians, whose coaching abilities have been hailed by none other than Magnus Carlsen himself.
I’m talking about RB Ramesh, who is also known as the coach of Praggnanandhaa and R Vaishali.
These two did exceptionally well, but then all this got into the background just because Gukesh did better. He did phenomenally well. So, let’s talk about it and let’s hear it straight from Ramesh.
Ramesh, welcome to the show.
R B Ramesh:
Yeah. Hello, Rakesh. Thank you for the opportunity.
Rakesh:
So, your first reflections on how it was for you, and about Gukesh to start with.
R B Ramesh:
Yeah. First of all, it was an excellent, out of the world performance by Gukesh, I should say; and winning the tournament ahead of so many stalwarts, so many favorites on paper and accomplishing it with a flourish, it was a phenomenal job. And being the youngest participant to achieve this, it’s really phenomenal; full congratulations to him and his team, they have done a wonderful job.
Rakesh:
Mayank, over to you.
Mayank:
Yes, Sir.
Sir, in the tournament, we had five Indians for the first time in history, after Viswanathan Anand. Overall, we had a chat during the Chennai Grandmaster tournament - at that time, we were talking about four Indians - because Gukesh and Arjun were still in the running. So, ahead of the tournament, did you feel that, with the likes of Ian Nepomniachtchi, Hikaru Nakamura, Fabiano Caruana, a 17-year-old Indian would go ahead and beat them all to win the championship? Were you expecting this?
R B Ramesh:
Ok. In general, my philosophy is I try not to predict the future with whatever limited knowledge I have. We can only make a guess or a wish and there is no likelihood that they could in fact happen in reality. But having said that, my feeling before the event was that ‘it could go either way’. On the one hand, my pre-tournament predictions were, it was either going to be Hikaru or Fabiano. Because these two are exceptionally strong players, but the downside with Hikaru is he’s also extremely active in the streaming arena, and so that could mean it’s a 50-50, it could either click well for him or it may not. And Fabiano, I expected him to be very consistent throughout the tournament, so I would have given him slightly more chances over Hikaru for this factor. He’s very focused on his playing career, and if given an outside chance to others, I was expecting it will be either Praggnanandhaa or Gukesh.
And among the two, I felt both could do exceptionally well and win the tournament, or in Gukesh’s case, it could go very bad as well. Because, he is more of a Virender Sehwag kind of a player. He could hit a 300 or it may not go well. So, that chance was always there. And Praggnanandhaa, he is more steady than Gukesh in style. And if he could win more games, then it could go his way. That was my reading. Pragg usually loses less. But, if he could win more, the tournament could go his way.
In Gukesh’s case, he should cut down on his losses. If he manages to do that, because he has the capability to win more games, he will get the points. In this tournament, he did it beautifully. He defended a few tough positions and lost only one game. And with so many number of wins, deservingly won the tournament.
Mayank:
As you have said that Pragg is someone who is very stable, very solid, and we saw in the first half of the tournament that he took a lot of draws, but he looked very solid while he was playing.
On the other hand, we had Gukesh who was also stable in the first half of the tournament, and majority of his wins came against players who were ranked in the bottom-half of the table eventually. So, can you talk to us about both of their styles?
R B Ramesh:
In the Candidates, with regard to Praggnanandhaa, he scored two wins in the first six games and a loss against Gukesh. So, he was on plus one after six rounds, which is quite healthy. And with a few more wins without any loss in the last eight rounds, he could have finished much higher. But he had two losses. So, that set him back and there were no wins for him in the second half. So, I think that was the major thing that pulled him down and in these tournaments, if you have to finish at the top, one, you have to cut down on the losses, and two, you need to get the wins. So, that did not happen for Pragg in the second half.
And with regard to Gukesh, his performance has been phenomenal. He had only one loss that was against Alireza that came in the seventh round. And he himself said in an interview that the setback with one rest day to handle the consequences actually motivated him to do even better in the second half. He came after seven rounds and scored three wins against Vidit, Nijat and Alireza. So, those three wins meant he could put a distance over his competitors.
And coming to their playing style, as I mentioned, Gukesh has a lot of self belief. He believes that he is very strong and he is destined to be a world champion. So, that self-confidence is fantastic and having that at such a young age, it gives you tremendous strength and it puts your opponents at a certain disadvantage; because you are playing someone who is almost fearless, you can say. And that’s not a very pleasant feeling to play such an opponent. And second, playing style-wise, he doesn’t experiment too much on his openings. He is just sticking to his strengths and he has not yet fully revealed his team because he’s still in the contention for a World Championship title. So, probably he will retain the same one. So, he does not want to go public, which is very understandable. So he has a very efficient team, which is giving him positions, which is true to his style. So, kudos to his team.
And regarding his playing style, he is capable of taking a lot of risks to play for a win, even against strong opposition. That just shows the strength, character, and the self-assurance he has. So, that’s a very positive quality. And as I mentioned, with this style, it could go either way. That is probably the reason why Magnus, too, in his pre-tournament predictions, did not rate Gukesh highly. Because, if things go wrong then it could go very badly as well.
In general, at Candidates, the top guys are very stable. They’re not going to give you chances if you give them bad positions. If you get into trouble, they are not usually going to give you chances. So, that’s what he was probably expecting. But Gukesh, he controlled his game much better in this tournament. He was not taking undue risks and he was only taking valid risks, I should say, and they paid off very well.
Mayank:
Rakesh sir, over to you.
Rakesh:
Yeah. For me, Ramesh, I was just curious to ask you one thing.
What is it that Gukesh did in those particular games where you saw a different Gukesh, that is, something that the world hadn’t seen? We all know that he takes his chances, he can lose a good number of games, but then he also has shown that he can hit back. But did we see something different there, something that the world of chess hadn’t seen of Gukesh in the past?
R B Ramesh:
I think he has brought in more stability in his games. Also, he defended a few very difficult moments like one against Fabiano. It looked like he has completely lost, in huge trouble, but he managed to save, and there are a few other very good saves as well. And these crucial half points are very important.
For example, in the case of Praggnanandhaa when he was playing against Nepomniachtchi, he got a completely winning position right after the opening. It was a very good opening preparation and he got more than +2 winning advantage just out of the opening, and he had much more time on the clock, but the conversion was not happening. It ended in a draw and that led Nepomniachtchi to get into the lead and it is these small moments that make a huge impact eventually. Because, when you get a winning position and you’re not able to convert, it could put some doubts in your head.
In case of Gukesh, this was not happening. When he was getting good positions, most of the times, he was converting it.
In case of Vidit we could see how things were happening to him. There were many winning positions and he was not able to convert. It shows a lot of doubts in your head about your current form.
That was not happening to Gukesh. One, he was not ‘not’ converting the better positions he was getting, he was converting, and two, he was also saving the bad positions. So, he was getting extra half points either way; from both, where he gets into trouble and also when he’s in the advantage. This is one thing that was special in him. In this tournament, as I said, he was more steady, more solid. He was not very reckless with his decisions. He was taking calculated risks, so he was able to moderate his emotions much better in this tournament and he was fully in control. That usually happens when you’re in good form to all the players. So. it it all comes down to nerves. How you handle the missed chances, the disappointments, both in terms of whether you are saving the worst positions or whether you’re converting the slightly better positions. If that is not happening and when you get these doubts, how you deal with it in your mind is very crucial, and in my view, Gukesh handled it much better than everyone else.
Rakesh:
I wanted your reflections on this unusual thing about 40 moves, two hours, no increment. Did that have an impact on at least a couple of individuals who are not used to this at all?
R B Ramesh:
I think in many games, from what I could see, I’m not sure if the time shown on the websites was correct. In many games, I was actually sleeping because, it was quite late at night in India, and many of the times I was watching at 5:00 in the morning when most of the games were already over. So, only a few games I could watch till two o’clock in the morning and so on. So, from that perspective, yes; players were first asked whether they are fine with this time control and everyone, most of them, agreed. So, it was something which the players knew what they were getting into.
In case of Pragg, we did play a few games to get used to not having that extra 30 seconds in the last part of the game, to make him play some interesting positions with less time and no increment on the clock to get adjusted to that. I believe most top players would have done the same as well.
But this time control, it also contributed to probably a few decisive games because of that 30 seconds not being there. For example, against Alireza, Gukesh had a very good position with the black pieces. And when it looked like he is going to convert, suddenly tables turned and Alireza won. In fact, I believe, if I am not mistaken, Gukesh even lost on time. But it was like a mate in one anyway, So, it did contribute to a few more decisive results. Yeah, very interesting time control, but probably we need to come up with such creative ideas to produce more decisive results at this high level.
Rakesh:
And one thing again, I want to know your views on when there was the first encounter between Gukesh and Pragg. The way Pragg started, he was all over him. Did you feel that Pragg could have seen that winning line a little sooner or he was just going in so deep into it that he just happened to take the wrong turn.
R B Ramesh:
Yeah. Discussed this with him after the game was over -‘What actually happened?’. Because, till the very last moment before the game, we were actually in our preparation. So, suddenly he went astray. I asked him what happened, he said that he had to check a lot of lines because Gukesh could play a few other openings as well, apart from what he did in that game. So, we have no way of predicting where our opponent will go in this particular game. We can only make an educated guess from our experience and how we read the player.
So, he had to prepare for two or three main openings, and everywhere we have many good ideas, but it’s a lot of material to go through in a few hours before the games. He actually went through a lot of material before the game and the line which Gukesh chose was not in the main ideas in our material. It was buried deep. It was more like we don’t expect that to happen in the game, but when that happened, he could not remember the moves, and he went in the completely wrong direction.
The problem is these questions are extremely complex and if you see like this is what happened in the game against Nepal as well, so you have to prepare a lot of stuff and you get the position and what could happen is like when we play a lot of moves theory from our preparation like 20 moves let’s say then our mind is not sufficiently warmed up to start thinking in a qualitative manner. So in cricket, if you see like when a batch when there is a a big partnership between 2 batsmen and the next batsman has to come out to play, they will be like stretching the body right when they come walking to the pavilion, to the batting stand, they do lot of warm up to the body because you are sitting probably and watching and suddenly you have to run, twist the body to hit the shots and so on and the body may not cooperate. So you have to get warmed up very quickly. So probably few singles will get the blood flowing. So similarly when you play a lot of theory it is very much possible that your brain is using only the memory aspect of your intellect and not the analytical aspect of your brain is not yet active. This was quite visible in both these games, both against Mukesh and Nepos. He played a lot of moves from memory and suddenly he has to think because the opponent deviates and the brain is not coming up with the best moves. So this is 1 learning experience, so I suggested a few things to him to avoid similar scenarios in the coming round and I think this win over Prague also very early on would have given a huge confidence boost to Gukesh because both are kind of going neck to neck in terms of rating before this tournament.
Mayank:
Rakesh, Sir, can I?
Rakesh:
Yeah, please. I was just about to hand it over to you.
Mayank:
So Ramesh sir will deviate a bit ahead before going to the women’s category. A word on it, because we have seen how, you know, he has changed his style of bet. I mean he was able to beat Hikaru not once, but twice with both colours. But he had few crushing losses as well. Magnus said ahead of the tournament that the possibility of him having a bad tournament is a bit higher than him having a good tournament and this exactly held true for his case, especially so like how did you assess his performance in the candidates?
R B Ramesh:
Well, Vidit is a fantastic player, very strong strategically. Overall, He’s a complete player. He can play end-games very well, he can play positional chess very well. He has a lot of ideas in the opening. He has good team experience, helping in opening preparations and he can play complicated questions as well. In the last few years, there is always this factor that he has many times the positions he gets and the outcomes they are not matching so he can get the good positions and go on to lose the game or from a drawing version he loses all of a sudden, and it kind of becomes like a pattern. And the fact that in social media also people notice and discuss this could have an impact as well because even if you want to forget it others keep reminding. So that’s one of the reasons I generally tell my students to avoid social media so that you don’t get reminded of your negatives or abuses in the middle of a tournament because you have enough to deal with on your plate. So you don’t want more complications. Yeah, In this tournament, he lost five games and many of those games he did not deserve to lose at all. But still, that happened, So it’s an inordinate amount of losses that pulled him back and he still managed to win three games, but five losses is a bit too much at this level, so fantastic player. I hope he’s able to draw the right lessons from this tournament and come back stronger.
Mayank:
Speaking about learning from losses, we have to speak about Vaishali. She had one and a half points in the first seven rounds. She had a terrible first half, but the way she recovered in the second-half, she scored six out of seven rounds. If I’m not wrong, she had five back-to-back wins. She matched Susan Polgar recording the candidates, she emulated her five consecutive wins. While speaking to Rakesk sir in the last podcast, he gave me insight that she is a player who was dependent on momentum like if and she also said that if if she’s like losing it’s it’s a bit difficult for her to, you know, stop that momentum and and same goes for her when she is winning. So how happy are you with her results? Because she eventually finished joint second. However the tie breaks even pushed her down to 4th position. So how happy are you with her?
R B Ramesh:
Yeah. In the first five rounds, she did reasonably well. She was on two and a half out of five. It was a very steady start, and usually such players don’t get a steady start. It’s either good or bad. It goes to this side or the other side. So in her case it was a solid start. In the first five rounds and then a series of four losses happened and generally not coming back after a defeat is not her main strength, I would say and four losses was a bit too much and in the fifth round also she was almost in a lost position as well. And then at the very end she turned the tables. Luck was on her side in that game, but you do need such breaks because it tells you the tide is turning your way and kind of an indication when such games, which you believe it’s totally beyond your sort of your hands and the the way she she finished the tournament and she won against the very strong players. It was not just like she was beating weaker players, but her last five round opponents apart from Salimova, it’s like Goryachkina, Muzychuk, Lei Tingjie so It was a fantastic comeback and really happy to see that she could win five games in a row. I hope This puts things in perspective and not just for her, but for all the players, because when you feel good in your head, it reflects in your performance. And when you feel miserable inside yourself, it can affect your quality of thinking, the mood and your performance eventually. So it is very important to insulate ourselves when things go wrong to become too pessimistic about ourselves. So how to insulate is something I hope the players will put more effort to deal with.
Mayank:
Rakesh sir, over to you.
Rakesh:
See, for me you know Vaishali, Ramesh, you know from being just a few moves away from losing a fifth straight game from there, the way she, you know, turned things around. Obviously, luck was favouring her big time because if you recall that game against you know that game against Alexandra. She was, I mean, that game could have ended in a draw. And this Russian girl decided not to repeat the moves. And then she went on to lose that game. And at the end of it, what we have is that Vaishali has victories over the two Russians. She has beaten the defending champion, and she beat. Besides that, I think.
R B Ramesh:
Muzychuk, Lei Tingjie, Goryachkina
Rakesh:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. To beat a former world championship runner up as well. So out of those four, you had two Russians, A defending champion and out of those two Russian one was the top seed. So I mean, when you look at them, you know there, I mean the kind of resume that these four girls had out of, you know, out of these five victims that is phenomenal and for somebody who doesn’t yet, you know, she hasn’t yet created opportunities to play with the top, you know the elite of the women’s. For that matter, I think Vaishali’s performance needs to be hailed a lot more. I mean, whichever way we see it, everything seems to have drowned in this euphoria of Gukesh winning it. But I think that was the reason why when this tournament started, when we were, you know, like talking about whether we should carry one report or two, I said no. Let’s just go with two separate reports. I think very few newspapers or news organisations have chosen to file two different ones, male and I mean for you know, like one for the open, one for this so that we can at least highlight this otherwise mostly what happens is we just add one line saying in the women’s section, blah blah blah blah blah whatever, but at least in this case we could highlight that. So and thanks to, you know, Vaishali, for giving us that reason now, what do you think about Humpy? Because Humpy, I thought in my view it was like she had the game to win this tournament. She was not just participating, she was there, her head-to-head record against all the leading players was fantastic. She had the experience and I think she had a lot of things going her way, but I think her, I mean, you know, her start was too slow and she didn’t show us the cutting edge, which she normally has, you know. Sometimes it was a little, you know, like blunt, so to say, if you like, what’s your view on this?
R B Ramesh:
Yeah, regarding humpy. Like having become a mother and not playing too actively unlike the young girls, But she has been India number one for I don’t know for how many years? Probably more than a couple of 25 years.
Yeah, it’s not a small thing. So full congratulations. I’m a huge fan of hers. She has been leading from the front for so long. And having said that, she had a kind of a very tough start in the first six rounds. She lost two games and. That two against one of the losses was against the bottom state Salimova. Yeah. So two losses in the first six rounds and the four draws is not a pleasant start. It can be quite depressing. But then she beat Vaishali and they got revenge against Salimova with the white pieces in the 11th round. And in between, she kind of studied her ship, made many draws and got these two wins which put her in 50% score and in the final round she beat Leighton G and came up to plus one. So very good recovery, not easy at this age and having minus to and to come to plus one with three wins in the remaining games very, very creditable, shows the mental toughness in her. She could bring it out at the crucial moment, and what I felt was I messaged Vaishali, like if there had been two or three four games, maybe actually could have even won the tournament, probably along with the Humpy, because the way they both were making a strong comeback in the second-half. But already the tournament was over at this point, but full credit to both Vaishali and Hampy for making this all inspiring comeback.
Rakesh:
Yes, Mayank.
Mayank:
Ramesh. Sir, I want to know more about Tan Zhongyi. Because again, she comes from China and China has, you know, been producing a lot of, you know, quality world class, World championship players. But the way she had dominated the women’s category, she had almost, you know, won the tournament with one round to spare, but she was constantly, you know, giving her competition. But you know, overall if you have to assess what your assessment of Tan stands on you.
R B Ramesh:
She has been playing phenomenal chess recently and in this tournament it was no different and so both in the men and women section the winners Gukesh and Tan Zhongyi. They both had scored nine points and they both had won five games, that shows a very high winning percentage that is very important to win such a strong event, you need to win more than others and they both did it wonderfully wells they both won five games. And in both the cases, they had lost just one game, which also reflects how stable they were in this crucial tournament. So it’s going to be quite interesting to have three Chinese fighting for the world championship and one Indian has become an all Asian affair now and I hope with one Indian, we will have an Indian world champion. Before this year.
Mayank:
OK. And how happy are you with the prospect that India might host its, you know, World championship for the second time in probably 11 years, so I mean.
R B Ramesh:
Yeah. So I remember very well in 2013 when Anand played against Magnus, but by then the scenario was very different. It was comparatively older Anand and young Magnus and Anand was the defending champion and the upcoming Magnus was the challenger. And it was happening in India. But this time it’s the other way. We have a young upcoming Indian as the challenger and comparatively older, Ding is 32 years old. So the tables have turned. We have young, hungry, Gukesh trying to unseat the comparatively older Ding, and the Ding also has been struggling with his form in the last few months, so Peter generally believed in many players’ views I’ve read on social media and also spoken to it’s like whoever wins the candidates will probably be the world champion. Because no one is expecting Ding to Put up a tough fight in this competition. I am not sure, I hope whatever emotional challenges he is going through he is able to sort them out in time and get back to his old form because in this form he is going to find it extremely tough to play against the hungry Gukesh well prepared Gukesh and we have already shown in 2022 our organisational capabilities hosting the Chess Olympiad in Chennai. It was done in a very exemplary manner. So we have the organisational skills and I hope AICF under India gets the opportunity to host the World Championship and produce the world champion in our soil.
Mayank:
Yeah, Rakesh. Sir, do you have anything to add?
Rakesh:
Yeah. I just want to add, you know, to what Ramesh had just said, he mentioned that both champions, you know, they scored equal number of wins and the same number of points and so on and so forth. And one very interesting factor: both were born on the same day. In the sense that they share their like birthdays, this is this is 1 record which will be very hard to beat to have both these tournaments under one roof and to see two people who share their birthdays emerge. You know, as the challengers. So OK, apart from that of course you know then again. Organising a chess match doesn’t necessarily mean I mean it is much more than having a table, two chairs and a set, a clock, It is much more than that, so of course the stakes are high. You have to also work towards the prize money thing, which FIDE offers, yes, but then a part of it has to be borne by the hosts. I mean, the stakes are high, but Ramesh, this is where I felt, I mean, because I was there in 2013, Anand, when he was leaving that hotel after the price distribution, the face said it all, you know, because he thought, I mean, he later on also hinted that holding a tournament in Chennai wasn’t a great idea. Not because he couldn’t win it but because of the pressure that he had, he had to avoid eye contact with people during the match. That means from the beginning of the match till the end of the match. He had to consciously avoid it because even the waiters would come and say, will she go for it? You know, he doesn’t want that. So there’ll be a lot of pressure as well. And Gukesh is young and I also hope for the kind of reception that he has received you know, this is unbelievable. At 3:00, poor chap he is, you know, like jaded. The guy has been pulled and pushed around. That was like we really went over the top. But at the same time holding it in India personally, I don’t think it’s a great idea. Yes. More and more people will be able to go and watch him in person. Go and play. But given the kind of pressure that this game brings on you because it’s such a mental spot, you know, so I don’t know, but let’s hope for the best and let’s hope that Mukesh is able to handle it. If it is happening in his hometown, there will be so much pressure on him, It will be clear.
R B Ramesh:
Yeah, I understand the concerns you are raising and they are very valid. And in fact, when I was also one of the commentators during the match, I could see it was very obvious to everyone watching that Anand was feeling the heat of the match being posted.
It was happening in his hometown and it was .It was affecting him right from the press conference. The kind of questions being thrown at him by the reporters. So and also, as you mentioned, the people from the hotel, they could all give some reactions, which was probably healthy or unsolicited, but I have seen Gukesh in a few tournaments especially during my country and WR Masters etc. He just prefers to keep to himself during tournaments, so he’s not someone who will socialise a lot during tournaments. So in that sense he is probably better prepared for a match in hometown or happening in India. So we just have to make sure that the reporters’ credentials are thoroughly verified. We should not get very insulting questions, judgmental questions, leading questions from the journalist to the players in such an important match. And if that is going to happen, I would just expect Gukesh to avoid the press conference altogether or just pick three or four journalists and only give them opportunity to ask questions or just to have someone who will filter the questions before it is put forward to him. Maybe this kind of thing can be organised very easily and regarding people from the hotel staff or anyone else, you could just hire a huge suit or few suits and kind of live in a very closed ecosystem if that is what he prefers to, but having the game in India would do word of good for popularising the game because there’s a high chance that he could become a world champion and that happening in India. We’ll take the game to the very next level. more money, more awareness, more recognition for the game and the players will happen so and so if we can insulate Gukesh from whatever things that could negatively affect him, I think the federation and the society should take care that doesn’t happen. Like when the match was organised in Bulgaria for Tupelo, I believe, like he was very well protected by the local ecosystem.
Rakesh Rao:
Right
Mayank:
Very valid point. Yeah, very valid point, Sir. One very interesting question from Lavanya. We have. I mean, it’s on the same lines as in. She said that like, this Gukesh’s win plus the celebration or the amount of recognition Praggnanandhaa and also got after his World Cup. You know, achievement. He eventually lost in the final, but I mean, she asked that. What do you think the impact of this celebrity culture would be on chess and, you know, largely for the introverted personalities like we have seen Gukesh or like for that matter all chess players a bit of you know introverted personalities. So how do you see this? This question is for both Rakesh sir and Ramesh sir .
Ramesh:
Yeah. Can I go first Rakesh?
Rakesh Rao:
Yeah, Ramesh, you go.
R B Ramesh:
Okay so I wouldn’t say chess players are introverted people per say, but that is how they are in public. Especially during a tournament. Now I have interacted with many players both as a player and as a trainer, and most of them, especially the young generation, are very jovial people who socialise very well. But the thing is, the stakes are extremely high now if we perform well like. We have Gukesh, who is playing for the World Championship title at such a young age now. This is the possibility and this is the opportunity which the players have. For example, like Pragg, when he came second in the FIDE World Cup last year. So, this is the kind of achievement these players are capable of delivering and for performing at such a high level against such tough competition. You need to be extremely focused. Especially these are young teenagers and there are many things that can take their attention away from the game and also I know many players who have thrown away the career for such a high quality reason like playing video games. Can you believe it? We have lost many strong players because they couldn’t overcome their temptations. I’m just giving an example and there are various other reasons as well and there are still players who are addicted to watching TV serials, video games and too much into socialising during a competition. It takes your energy and focus away from the tournament, so they are kind of forcing themselves to be like this. And during the competition. That is when all the eyes on them and they project the image. That they are very introverted, which is probably not good from media perspective. Probably they would prefer someone like Anish Giri or Hikaru who are very outspoken or kind. But in the Indian culture, when we try to focus, we kind of withdraw ourselves so that it’s also probably playing a part, but away from the tournament, these children are very socialising.
Mayank:
Rakesh sir.
Rakesh Rao:
Yeah, see. With the years, I mean, having seen about 40-45 years or even more of Indian chess and Indian chess players, I think that the current generation, as Ramesh said, is a lot different .Earlier the way their chess players carried themselves, it was almost. I mean . I’m consciously using this word shameful. It was almost shameful to see some of the players playing national A which was our Premier event limited to 14 players and you just look at them even after the. I mean even if we consider the fact that they were working in good organisations. Be it railways, be it petroleum, be it nationalised banks, but the way they came to the tournament hall wearing slippers and, you know, crush T-shirts, not taking shave, not even combing their hair. And they were playing for the national crown . Around now those days you don’t see anymore, luckily because they used to think we are here to play chess. We are not here to do fashion. The word fashion was used very loosely during those days. Forget the confidence to speaking to media. Media was seen as somebody they couldn’t trust. I’ve gone through that. entire process of some of the. Leading names from the Indian Chess not trusting the media .They used to think why is he asking questions? So from those days we have come a long way. And today what you see if you look at players like Hari, Vidit,Tanya, even when you see people like you know, Arjun Gukesh, Pragg when they are talking you don’t they don’t give you the impression that they are scared of the media or they’re scared of speaking they are getting to be more and more articulate. Of course their responses are, you know, measured, which is fine like Anand was one of the finest spokesperson of Indian chess and and again I’m using this very, very, very consciously because what he did when he spoke about indian chess or chess in general was brilliant because people heard him. Even to this day, people listen to him when he speaks, so chess players over a period have evolved because this is a new generation and they also know how to deal with attractions as well as distractions. They know that they live in a very different world but now they choose to be on social media or they choose not to be. They can always switch on and switch off. But yes, this kind of you know, welcome, which we saw for Pragg in August and then later on I mean no, of course recently. I mean it makes me feel good. Yes, that there are people who are willing to. go there at in the morning and get our champion mobbed and stuff like that. I was just wondering, what were we going to do any different? I mean, are we? Are we even thinking of doing anything different? If we had to win a tournament like the World Championship and come back to India, it will be on similar lines what more can you do? This was crazy, but the fact is. We are Indians We believe in showing our emotions, so it is fine, but as long as the players don’t get affected by it because they’re not used to it, a cricketer gets. I mean, he gets used to it even when he’s playing his first season of IPL. If he makes a 8 ball 20, he’ll be mobbed the moment he steps out of that stadium.but these guys are not used to it so and these guys are still young. We are talking about young brains. Which areI mean, these guys are still going through the age where it’s very, very impressionable age now for you to have that control. Of course these guys are not acting like 17 year olds, they’re acting like full grown men. Look at the choices they make, look at the choice of words when they speak every sentence is so carefully worded but so this is not the usual 17 year old which we are all used to. This is a new India, a new generation, they think differently. But of course that was my fear, my apprehension that this shouldn’t stay for too long with these individuals. They most probably have a way of you know dealing. With it, they will just keep it aside and focus on their next game,next move. So yes, things have changed, but overall I think this is a very mature lot with Arjun Vidit, Pragg and then of course not to forget some of the other names. Nihal has just gone off the radar a bit but he has been there for a bit now and then of course among the girls you have Vaishali topping the charts there. So you have this young crowd which is also capable of speaking well.
That is what we needed in Indian chess for a long time. Any articulate people which at least I used to find it very tough to find people who could talk about chess Ramesh you were an exception and you know that.
R B Ramesh:
Yeah, things are changing. We are a more confident young generation now than compared to my generation of players when I was travelling to Europe, we always had this lingering insecurity within ourselves. We did not feel very comfortable with many things and it probably showed in the way we deal with the media and so on. But yes, this is a generation who are extremely ambitious and who are very self assured, self confident and they believe they are good. They can be champions and they. belong at the top so they don’t feel like avoiding the media or feel threatened to express their views but I’m sure all these youngsters are also getting used to this kind of attention. And I’m sure they will be able to date in a professional way without letting it affect their sporting performances.
Mayank:
Sir, We are heading towards the end of this interaction. I know Ramesh Sir, you said that you don’t like to, you know, predict or something of that sort. But if you had to pick,I’m including both World Championships. You have to pick your favourites. Can you just pick one?
R B Ramesh:
No, as you already mentioned, I don’t believe in predictions. My philosophy is simple. Whoever plays well in that event, they deserve to win and even when I was in the chess base in the channel during the penultimate round on the 12th round, like when they asked the same question. So, personally I would want Gukesh to do well. Having said that, that’s a given. I would expect both the challengers will have a better chance.
Mayank:
Rakesh sir, any concluding words?
Rakesh Rao:
Yeah, see if you ask an Indian whether Gukesh is going to win or Ding Liren everybody would say Gukesh for a certain reason and see I’m going to back Gukesh for one reason that I think he’s far more inspired, he’s motivated. He knows what it will bring to him, and probably he’ll be able to handle the pressure of expectations. And for that again, deep down, I feel that the tournament should not be held in India. That’s what I feel having seen Anand suffer during those days, because for him to make a comeback was so difficult. So I’m still looking at the mirror of my life looking at 2013 and saying this, if you hope, I mean if you just open and pray that Gukesh is able to handle it, then of course let’s have it here in India and see him when. But about the other match, I think again Dan looks solid . Alright, but that’s a very tough one for me to call because I’ve always respected you for, I mean the way she has played, she’s pretty solid and the way she defended the ground last time around by beating Lee, that was also quite solid. So there it is, it will be 50-50 for me to call but here of course I’ll give Gukesh the edge.
Mayank:
OK, with this, we’ll end this podcast. Thank you so much, gentlemen, for your time. And it was lovely hearing your insights.
Rakesh Rao:
Thank you.
R B Ramesh:
Thank you Rakesh